Season 5: Episode 9: Vayuna Gupta
Senior Legal and Policy Advisor at Global Rights for Women
Vayuna Gupta
Senior Legal and Policy Advisor at Global Rights for Women
How to get a job in public interest law as a LLM?
Vayuna has always wanted to become a lawyer and make others feel empowered in their daily life and work. She represented victims of domestic violence, neglect, abuse in New York State Family Court. Now she’s the Senior Legal and Policy Advisor at Global Rights for Women, traveling around the world to collaborate with partner NGOs in different parts of the world on legal and policy systemic changes in gender-based violence laws.
What was her job search process?
How to pass the New York bar as a LLM at your first attempt?
How was the cultural differences and sensitivity reflected in a case she worked on?
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Where did you grow up and why did you choose to study law?
I grew up in the western part of India, in a city called Ahmedabad. I went to law school in another city in South India called National Law School of India University. When I was 18, I had to make decisions about my future pretty quickly, including my choice of pursuing law, as is expected in the Indian education system. I'm a first-generation lawyer. I don't have any attorneys in my family, not even in my extended family, so I had no direct reference point for what a legal career would look like.
But at 18, I really wanted to use my education to make a difference; I wanted to be in a position where I felt empowered and could help others feel empowered in their everyday lives and in the choices they made for themselves. As I reflected on this, law seemed to fit all the expectations I had from my future profession. That's how I decided to study law in a country where most people typically choose STEM majors—science, math, medicine—over fields like law, a decision I am immensely proud of.
Why did you study law in the United States?
During COVID I got to do some thinking and realized that I really wanted to continue my work in the public interest sphere on a global scale, and international law seemed to fit that description.
In India, there are very few opportunities in international law. Additionally, law schools in India offer limited international law courses. I saw studying in the US as an opportunity to learn more, and I believed that being a foreign-trained attorney would be an added advantage when working in international law. All of this convinced me that international law was the right path for me.
I completed my master's in international law at New York University School of Law. I was part of the 2021-2022 batch, which was just towards the end of COVID, but not completely over it. When I arrived at NYU, I focused my courses on international human rights and humanitarian law, which I enjoyed. I'm grateful that I can now do that work in my professional life.
Could you tell us more about your current work?
I’m the Senior Legal and Policy Advisor for Global Rights for Women, an organization that focuses on legal and policy systemic changes in gender-based violence laws around the world. We work on a partnership model, collaborating with partner NGOs in different regions that request our assistance. Our role is to help them critically analyze their laws and suggest reforms related to gender-based violence, train stakeholders responding to gender based violence and conduct institutional assessments.
As the legal and policy advisor, most of my work involves doing the legal legwork in our engagement with these partners and international organizations. A significant part of my job involves traveling to various parts of the world to speak with survivors of gender-based violence and understand their experiences. This firsthand insight allows me to review their laws and recommend policy changes from a survivor-centric perspective or make institutional assessments considering the cultural context of each society.
I conduct training for advocates on international standards for gender based violence responses and how to better respond to survivor needs, sharing insights from our organization's experiences across different regions.
Most of my recommendations, be it policy changes or through trainings, are grounded in the international obligations of each country. While I also draw on successful practices from other parts of the world, I believe that basing suggestions on international obligations makes them more objective and effective.
I don’t use my multilingual skills extensively in my current role, but I find that sometimes being from a different culture helps me relate to cultural expectations of survivors in my interactions with them.
However, my multilingual skills were incredibly useful in my previous job, where I represented parents in child protective proceedings in New York City. Many of my clients were immigrants .Being able to speak the same language as some of my South Asian clients was helpful. It allowed for better communication, especially since many couldn't speak English fluently. It also helped my colleagues who had South Asian clients needing interpretation.
Could you share with us some memorable stories you encountered in your work?
A couple of months ago, I learned something interesting at my current job while working on a long-term project in the Philippines. I found out that the Philippines, does not have a divorce provision for its majority Christian population. One can’t legally divorce there, apart from a few exceptions. This absence of divorce rights for women complicates gender-based violence work because the inability to exit relationships makes it harder for survivors to move on.
Like I mentioned earlier, in my previous job, I worked with an NGO, Center for Family Representation, that provided pro bono legal representation to indigent parents in child welfare proceedings pro bono. I represented clients from various backgrounds, and there were times when colloquial phrases didn’t translate well into English. I remember one South Asian client who used a phrase that when translated literally meant, "Before this happens, I would rather die." In its original context, it was just a colloquial expression and not meant to be taken literally. However, the opposing attorney was alarmed. We quickly had to clarify that she didn’t mean it literally; it was just a phrase she used. This incident taught me about the communication barriers that can arise, especially when dealing with clients who cannot express themselves in English as fluently as needed in the U.S. legal system.
Which interpretation did the court eventually adopt?
The court had to clarify with her if that’s what she meant. She reassured the court that she didn’t mean this literally. So, it was fine. In my experience, at least for situations like this, that particular judge did try to be a bit culturally sensitive. It’s not the case across the board, but the judge I was in front of definitely made an effort to be sensitive to cultural differences to a certain degree.
How did you find your current job?
This is my second job after my LLM. My first job was with Center for Family Representation. In law school in the U.S., we’re encouraged to network for jobs. For me, I found opportunities through direct applications. I know many people have benefited from networking to find jobs, but that hasn’t worked out for me yet. For both, my previous job and this one, I found the positions on ‘Idealist’, a job portal for public interest jobs, applied, someone read my application and offered me an interview.
Do you have any advice for new graduates?
A LLM is a really, really quick journey! It is definitely stressful and overwhelming. Too much happens too quickly! As a foreign-trained lawyer, before you can adjust to the new city, to the United States, it's practically over. And in that period, there's the bar exam, then there's looking for opportunities. There's a lot of resilience that LLM students possess and that's, I think, their strength. It also goes on to show that they can be great professionals in the space.
An LLM is an incredibly tough journey as a professional re-entering a foreign job market from scratch. But it is a extensively rewarding journey when we keep at it and things do work out.
If you're pursuing an LLM in a new country, recognize the immense courage it takes! You bring unique skills to the table, and if you're seeking job opportunities in a foreign market, the right employer will recognize the value of your contributions.
In the end, I hope that everybody gets to achieve whatever they hoped for from their LLM’s.
You have taken and passed the New York bar exam at your first attempt. Would you share any advice on how to pass the NY bar?
I think it’s okay not to study for the bar exam until one graduates. It’s important to spend the nine months in law school adjusting, taking courses, and figuring out what you like and what you want to do next.
There are three steps for the bar exam. The Multistate Professional Responsibility Examination (MPRE) isn’t the hardest, so that can be taken at any point during your school year.
For the UBE, which is a two-day test, preparation is exceptionally intensive. Most LLM graduates get 2 months post graduation to prepare for the test. In these 2 months I really appreciate people who can work while studying for the bar, but for most, it requires dedicated study time. As an LLM student, one might need to put in eight to ten hours a day depending on one’s memorization skills, English language skills and test taking experiences. The time commitment is more for LLM students than JD students because most LLM students haven't taken the primary American law courses that JD students cover in their first year. I believe the key to passing the UBE is consistency and putting in the work needed over the course of the two months available to you.
All this said, I do want to acknowledge that some days aren’t our days, and it could very well be the day you’re sitting for the bar exam. The exam isn’t a reflection of one’s ability or what one can achieve in their life, at all!
It’s a tough journey as an LLM student in the US, and everyone has their own path, so don’t be too hard on yourself!
